William Binney: The Future of Freedom

Tragedy and Hope, 28 January 2015

Richard Andrew Grove interviews William Binney

I. Meine Zusammenfassung

unter Verwendung der Analogie


biologischen Organismen und gesellschaftlichen Gruppierungen (Staaten)

Joachim Gruber

In meinen Augen beschreibt Binney die Aufgaben von †berwachung analog zu den Aufgaben des Immunsystems. Die Einzelheiten, die er schildert, lassen sich im Rahmen dieser Analogie deuten.

II. Aussagen im Interview

Scene 2

I devoted my entire life to protecting the constitution and insuring that we'll continue to have that.The oath of office is to protect and defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And now, the only threat, the real threat is the domestic one. What we've done to ourselves, no one could have done to us. And that is what the oath of office and the constitution was given to prevent. This is the time when all good Americans need to stand up and oppose this.


Richard Grove: February 2001 AT&T and Verizon get these pieces of paper from the government, saying "we want your customers' data". AT&T used something called the NARUS device, and I'm sure there is an equivalent device at Verizon ...

William Binney: VERINT ...

RG: ... and what do these devices do specifically - and again, this was February 2001, am I correct?


WB: NARUS didn't, I think, start marketing things till about 2002. But before that, in 2001, early on they were going around soliciting informaton from different telecommunications companies. One we know about that is in court record is Qwest. Nacchio was the CEO of Qwest at the time. He refused to turn over all of their data. They approached him on 27th of February according to the court records, of 2001, which was about 7 months before 9/11. They were approaching him before 9/11 to get all of their data, all of their customer information. That was kind of implied: The intent was to get information on US citizens even before 9/11.


The key point about when they were approached is that we had proposed to deploy our system in November of 2000, just 3 or 4 months before they made this approach to Qwest, because we had everything connected and everything was functioning all the way back to the big-ass graphs, if you will the bag, or the social networking for everybody that was ingested in. We had projected at the time [that] we had no limit as to how many trillions of transactions we could take in, that we could still manage them with this process that we put together. 

The idea was that you took in trillions of relationships, like phone calls between people, but when you boiled it down you would only get tens of billions of relationships you need uniquely, and all the others would only be repeats of those tens of billions of relationships. So we would put together a system that would built the relationship and then keep a counter of how many times we had a record of that relationship, rather than keep the entire list of the ... If we saw something a 1000 times, we simply had it once and say "we saw it a 1000 times", as opposed to listing it 1000 times. So that's how we could boil it down to a small set of information and keep it in a rather compact set of storage. That's how we projected we could graph every transaction in the world that way. So we didn't have a problem with storage, and we didn't see a limit as to how much we could graph and put it together in a B+ tree type index, which meant we had fast access to it to make decisions, as data was passing by, on whether or not we should keep that data. That's how we fundamentally did it with a B+ tree type index query to keep up with the velocity of things in the fibre network. 

Anytime we started to get pressed in terms of CPU time processing, we would simply add another processor and simply split the process and make it manageable again. The only thing that kept us from doing any amount of data was how much space and power we had available and we could buy the equipment to make that happen.

RG: So prior to 9/11 AT&T and Verizon had complied with the government. This pre-9/11 collections of data means that the post-9/11 surveillance of the American citizens has nothing to do with 9/11 so much as they just wanted control and wanted to break into this fibre optic networks, and AT&T and Verizon complied, and Joseph Nacchio from Qwest said "No". What happened to him?

WB: He ended up in jail. I think they went at him. He claims he was framed (deutsch vielleicht "reingelegt"). I don't doubt it because they attempted to frame me, too. Except they didn't succeed. I had evidence to show that that was a frame job and it was malicious prosecution on their part. But evidently he couldn't do that, so he ended up in jail for a couple of years, I think he recently got out of jail.

I think that they used 9/11 as a way they could intimidate Congress into making it happen, to allow them to do that. And that's the way they did it. They had to keep it so secret, because they knew they wouldn't be permitted by Congress or the courts to do it when they didn't keep it secret. So they allowed only 4 members of the Congress to know about it, the Chairs and Ranking Members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees. That was it. (01:10:55)


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